Lunch with...Lucy Findlay

London to Exeter is a long journey just for lunch, but it's worth it as this isn't just a trip to meet a leading social entrepreneur, but a trip to the birth place of the Social Enterprise Mark. In November 2007, when the Mark was launched, no one could have estimated where it would have ended up.

Now, less than two years later, it is the foundation of a government-supported national drive to promote and define the movement that is social enterprise.

Lunch is in a picturesque café in the centre of a typical Dartmoor village with Lucy Findlay, the CEO of the south west's 'voice of social enterprise', RISE. She has been pivotal to the Office of the Third Sector's new identifier as a member of its steering group.

Any other time, our chat would have focused on how social businesses are growing out of the rural areas in the south west, how the Eden Project has boosted the economy or even how the original RISE Mark planned to go national. But now it is about how this relatively small project suddenly became the basis of a UK-wide social enterprise brand.

The brand, or at least an aspect of it, is due to be launched on Social Enterprise Day, on 19 November. Findlay is the first to admit it is exceeding everyone's expectations at RISE.

'We always knew the Social Enterprise Mark needed to be national in order for it to have credibility, but we never envisaged this would happen,' she says, waiting for a glass of sparkling elderflower at a small table overlooked by an army of fair trade tea, organic oats and ethical biscuits.

'As a south west organisation, we needed to test the water. It came from the need for a trade association like the Beacon Network, where RDAs (regional development agencies) were bringing together like-minded businesses. It was like a club and that's what we wanted for social enterprise, yet we didn't want a membership organisation because that's what RISE and the Coalition are for.'

It was at Voice08, the national conference for social enterprise organised by the Social Enterprise Coalition (SEC), three months after RISE launched its Mark, that Findlay realised there was a bigger than anticipated demand for some kind of social enterprise brand. A petition was started.

'We knew it had potential,' says Findlay, recalling how SEC staff were inspired by what they saw.

We tuck in to our rainbow of healthy salads: beetroot, bean shoots, noodles, almost all organic and all grown locally using rich compost created by a social enterprise just down the road called Proper Job.

Two years down the line, the social enterprise identifier steering group is in the final stages of testing a three-tier brand: an identifier for social enterprises, probably with 50 per cent of their income from trading; a campaign to promote social enterprise; and another brand for businesses on a social enterprise 'journey' (see Social Enterprise issue 79 or click here).

It's this third phase that seems the most controversial and confusing at this stage and Findlay explains both its pros, like how it could be used by start-ups, and cons, such as being taken advantage of by businesses with no intention of becoming full social enterprises.

Findlay adds that it could also be a motivational tool that could attract businesses to the social enterprise way of thinking. It would, however, need some kind of time limit.

There's also a possibility it may take the form of some kind of certificate rather than a separate branding.

'It's still being researched,' she says, adding this element will probably be the last phase of the identifier to be launched, if it makes it at all.

Until then, the steering group needs to choose a logo and decide how the campaign will work.

As we both study the various marks adorning the products on sale in The Courtyard, we discuss how difficult it is to get it right. What Findlay is adamant about is that a national brand will help social enterprise 'come out of the woodwork' and make the movement flourish.

'Setting a criteria of 50 per cent trading income means we could find social enterprises that didn't even know they were social enterprises, like student unions. And before they reach that point of trading income, they could be on a social enterprise journey,' she says.

'Yes, it means some organisations could take advantage of it, but if they are heading towards being a social enterprise, I don't think that's any bad thing. One thing we have to be clear of is that we're not saying an organisation with the Mark is good quality - it's not a quality mark - but we can say it's trading for good.'

So is RISE's dream being realised? One positive element is that a new social enterprise, structured as a community interest company (CIC), is being set up to administer the identifier and handle the licence fee paid to become a Mark holder.

This is initially being led by RISE but discussions are ongoing about how the sector can be nationally represented through the CIC.

A programme offering commission to any organisation, social enterprise or private, that recruits Mark holders, is also being considered along with a plan for Social Enterprise Mark champions, who are due to be appointed in every English region.

After coffee, we head to the very social enterprise that provides some of the produce we have just eaten, Proper Job.

The recycling business, which sells everything from reclamation to books and clothes and is attempting to be fully sustainable, describes itself as a not-for-profit community- owned enterprise.

And although our guide, Spider, says a Mark would help consumers locally understand its purpose, he's not sure a national brand would have much of an impact.

'We've always had green ethics, but a Mark would only help if our customers had green ethics too,' he says.

Even so, making social enterprise a household name and something recognisable to those who want to shop for products and services as ethically as possible can surely only be a good thing.